This exchange is based on Matthew 16:24-26, “Jesus said to his disciples, ‘If anyone wants to come with me, he must deny himself, take up his cross, and follow me. For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life because of me will find it. What does it benefit a man if he gains the whole world yet loses his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?'”

Jesus: I have seen you in the crowd listening to me speak. Why do you always stand at a distance?

Disciple: I didn’t know if I could approach you, or what it would take to come to you. So I played it safe and watched and listened.

Jesus: There are three questions you must answer if you want to be my disciple:

1. Do you want to come with me? (Yes or No)
2. Will you deny yourself? (Yes or No)
3. Will you take up your cross? (Yes or No)

If you answered “yes” to these three questions, follow me! If not, feel free to go your own way.

Disciple: Rabbi, I do want to follow you. There is no one who teaches with the authority that you do, and I sense that there is life in your words. But what does “denying yourself” mean?

Jesus: Do you remember the rich young ruler? (Matthew 19:16-30) What kept him from giving away his possessions?

Disciple: His wealth and possessions was where he found his comfort, security, worth, and identity. He was afraid of losing all that he put his hope in.

Jesus: And what about the Pharisees? Where do they get it wrong? (Matthew 23)

Disciple: They hold on to their appearance of righteousness at all costs. They love to look good before others and neglect their heart, which is the most important thing. They also look down on others and are unwilling to associate with those who are “unclean.”

Jesus: Indeed. And I ask you, what are you trusting in that is not me? Where are you performing instead of living authentically? Whose approval are you looking for? If you want to follow me, you must give that up.

Disciple: And what of this cross? It is a horrible instrument of torture and death devised by wicked and cruel men. I wouldn’t wish that on my worst enemy. It feels too cruel even for the most vile of sinners. What could I possibly do to deserve this?

Jesus: Is a student greater than his teacher (Matthew 10:24-26)? If the world hated me, doesn’t it make sense that it would also hate those who are like me? Don’t assume you will be treated well or fairly by the world.

Disciple: So are you saying that I will have to die for you?

Jesus: I assure you, you will have to die many deaths before it is all said and done.

Disciple: What then will survive?

Jesus: Tell me, which is more valuable: gold that is still in ore form, or that which has been refined with fire?

Disciple: The pure gold.

Jesus: Precisely! All the imperfections and dross are burned away and only what is precious and true will remain. In the same way, those who suffer for my sake are being refined. The road I’m calling you to is not an easy one. You will encounter many griefs and trials, and things will try to trip you up. But I promise that it’s worth it! Anything you give up in this life you will receive back 100 fold in the life to come. You will be on the front lines against the kingdom of darkness, bringing light, goodness, and restoration. Therefore, I urge you not to grow weary of doing good. You are planting seeds for my kingdom harvest, and you will reap at the proper time if you do not give up. Will you follow me?